HATIDZA

Adela Sajdel Cerić: Okay. Shall we begin? So, I am Adela Sajdel and I will conduct this interview with Hatidža Beširević. Hatidža, would you introduce yourself? Your name, where you were born, and how old you are.

Hatidža Beširević: I am Hatidža Beširević, born in Prijedor in 1948, on May 5.

ASC: Okay, so now we’ll…

Ana Croegaert: And Zumreta? No? 

HB: Say it, why not, tell it.

Zumreta Subašić: My name is Zumreta Subašić. I was born in Prijedor in 1967, I will soon be 46 years old. 

AC: I am Ana Croegeart, an American.

HB: That’s right. Okay, okay. We are Bosnian and American. 

ASC: Okay, Ana has prepared a few questions, so we’ll go over them one by one. Tidža, when did you first learn how to make coffee, to brew coffee, how old were you? 

HB: Well, I…

ZS: Well how old were you?

HB: Well, I don’t know. I was little. 

ASC: Was it before you started school? 

HB: Well, I was eight-nine years.

ZS: Eight, that’s …

ASC: Do you know where you were? 

HB: In Miljakovci.

ASC: At your home, right? 

HB: Right, in Miljakovci, at my home. Near Prijedor.

ASC: Was it your mom who taught you or other relatives?

HB: My mom. 

ASC: Yes. And were you drinking it then or just learning how to brew it?

HB: Learning how to brew it, but afterwards I loved to drink it. They begin complaining there’s a shortage of coffee, and then I hide some so I can have it. So I can brew some when my girl friends come by for coffee, for ...

ASC: And what did it taste like?

HB: Like heaven. 

ASC: Did it?

HB: Like heaven.

ASC: Did you ever have something to eat along with drinking your coffee, or did you just drink coffee?

HB: Since [we] lived in a village and had fruit, it was home-made, more or less everything was home-made?

ASC: And that’s what you had? 

HB: Yep, yep, we sure did. We’d have some packaged cookies sometimes, say that Turkish delight candy and fruit, like I sad, things like that. 

ASC: So when you started making coffee, did you do it often, or how was it, sometimes?

HB: Well, more often when you get tired and coffee hits the spot. 

ASC: Okay.

HB: To get some rest.

AC: Mmmmm.

ASC: With you… (inaudible).

HB: We knew how to relish it, sorry.

AC: No!

ZS: Let her laugh. When did I brew my first coffee? When I was 18 when I started university. And that was really difficult to do. Because… 

HB: nuts…

ZS: First, I didn’t know which… (snaps fingers)

HB: Sorry, sorry.

AC: No, that’s okay.

ZS: I didn’t know which type of coffee was for me. With milk, without milk, stronger, weaker, with sugar, without, so my roommate who shared the apartment with me would test it. That was a big deal, a big project. And when I started making it, it took about a year until I started the other, started brewing it for others. 

HB: You were a young girl then. 

ZS: Nineteen, thereabout…

ASC: So did you enjoy how that taste of coffee, or?

ZS: I… No, I didn’t, and then I decided my favorite was black, no sugar, stronger. And that had to be one small cup, made to measure, sufficient. And the change took place when I went to Sweden after seven years, then I started to take it white, with milk, with sugar, and weaker.

ASC: Weaker?

ZS: And now I drink Nes Café, like, without caffeine. That one, that one’s the best for me. Also café latte. 

ASC: And in your case, Tidža, do you remember when you first got your first coffee pot and cup set, or did you go and buy yourself a coffee pot and a cup? 

HB: My mom had those. Cups, small individual coffee pots, big coffee pots, medium.

ASC: Did she give you those? 

HB: Ah, my mom kept those. Mom kept those and then, when I got married, of course I bought some for myself. 

ASC: Okay. So no one gave you your first cups and coffee pot, you bought them for yourself.

HB: No, no one gave me any.

ASC: And when you were a little girl, back then there were no, of course, no electric…

HB: No, we had wood stoves.

ASC: No, no that’s not what I’m asking you, but…

HB: Aha, the dishes! 

ASC: No, grinders.

HB: Of course! No, no, no. 

ASC: Those were manual…

HB: Manually, manually. 

ASC: M-hm. So do you think there’s a difference between coffee that’s…

HB: It’s nicer when it’s ground…

ASC: …when it’s ground…

HB: …manually.

ASC: Okay, is it nicer because you get tired grinding it so you appreciate it more, or?

HB: No, no, it’s nicer, I have one here, so I started grinding again? 

ASC: You’re grinding here again?

HB: Right. Mizret, let me show her that…

AC: Can I take pictures?

HB or ZS: But I’m not photogenic…

AC: Oooooh, perfect! Is it okay if I take a picture?

HB: Okay. Check this out! 

AC: These are amazing. They don’t…

ASC: Mirzet made it, Hatidža’s husband.

AC: You made it?

HB: Yeah! Mirzet, yeah!

AC: Wow!

HB: Rust-free, say it.

 

ZS: (quietly) Rust-free. Say it. 

 

ASC: I’m afraid I don’t know how to translate “rosfrajt”. (Rust-free.) 

 

(indecipherable, several voices at the same time)

 

ZS: Because coffee is the most important thing for Bosnians. 

 

AC: One more, Hatidža, one…

 

AC: Can I…Wow.

 

HB: That’s hand-made.

 

ASC: All right. While Ana is looking over this grinder, let me ask you, Tidža, where did you use to buy coffee beans? Is that something you used to buy? 

 

HB: We used to go to Čela to buy some.

 

ASC: So…

 

HB: A village, it was called Čela. 

 

ASC: A shop in Čela, right? 

 

HB: A shop, that’s right. Right, a shop.

 

ASC: And mostly you bought coffee beans, and then at home…

 

HB: Yep, raw coffee, and then we’d roast it. 

 

ASC: Roast it, for sure, that’s…

 

ZS: And there were two methods of roasting.

 

HB: Dolaf [SŽ: a special metal pot for coffee roasting, held over an open fire, outside the house of course], first in dolaf, you light a fire and roast the coffee. So you don’t fill the house with smoke. And then later you roast it in an electric oven on a baking sheet. 

 

ASC: Yes. Yes. 

 

HB: In an electric stove.

 

ASC: And during the war, where did you buy coffee then?

 

HB: Ooooh! Also in the shop, coffee was very scarce, you’d roast barley, mix barley and coffee. Just a bit, just a bit of coffee, mostly it was barley. 

 

ASC: Did you have a favorite special coffee, some company that…

 

HB: Minas. 

 

ASC: Minas?

 

HB: Minas, the most… Brazil, and Minas. 

 

ASC: Okay.

 

HB: Brazilian and Minas.

 

AC: Brazil and Minas are your favorite brands, okay. 

 

HB: Right, right.

 

ASC: How do you take your coffee? To… a bit of milk, with cream?

 

HB: I take it black now. I used to take it with cream, with milk, and now black.

 

ASC: Sugar?

 

HB: A little bit. A tiny bit. 

 

ASC: When you worked before the war, did you drink coffee at work, with your coworkers?

 

HB: We did, with the workers, right, we had a cafeteria downstairs, and we were brewing and drinking coffee, all of us.

 

ASC: Did you have breakfast like that, all together?

 

HB: Right, we’d have breakfast, and around 11 a break, I mean when you get to work at 7, coffee, and later at 10, coffee again, and then when they go home, no coffee, twice.

 

ASC: Okay. So what would you talk about, what would you during… 

 

HB: Well, everyone has their own story. 

 

ASC: And when you were spending time together, did you talk about…?

 

HB: Well, everyone has their story, let’s say, of course we spent time together, we were very very kind, we were like a family, my company was really like a family. 

 

ASC: And now let’s go back to you, Zumreta. So, how did you brew coffee, did you like to use this traditional grinder or an electric grinder?

 

ZS: Since the beginning I always used a hand grinder, since an electric grinder…

 

HB: Burns the coffee.

 

ZS: Yes, it changes the taste and it makes it stronger. Then you have to watch it. If it hasn’t been over-roasted, then you can use either kind of a grinder. And if it’s been roasted for a somewhat longer time, then it’s best to use a hand grinder. So I also prioritize the hand grinder first.  

 

ASC:  Well then… And do you have a specific brand of coffee that you like to drink, is it Minas for you as well, or do you have no preference? 

 

ZS: I have no preference. I prefer no specific brand. 

 

ASC: You mentioned earlier that you didn’t really like to drink coffee before the war, that you thought it was too expensive, would you tell us something…

 

ZS: No, no I didn’t think… I…

 

HB: Tell the truth!

 

ZS: Well, no, that’s not the truth, but, at the time when I was growing up, there was crisis in Bosnia as far as coffee…

 

HB: Yep.

 

ZS: And the source was Italy. And, um, it cost a lot of money to get to obtain coffee. And then, most of parents prioritized coffee over other things. And that coffee was also a way of social, you know, interaction, social, rest, when it’s the time for it, when it’s time for work, to drop everything, that’s coffee time. So, in Bosnia, coffee was a big symbol for a lot of things. So when I was a child, I couldn’t understand that something I didn’t think tasted nice, something my mom let me taste, and it didn’t taste like anything special, that people would spend so much money on it and sacrifice for it, so I’d always say I wouldn’t drink coffee. And why did I start drinking coffee? When I became a university student, social life was all about coffee, if you wanted to approach someone you didn’t know, to introduce yourself, the first thing you asked was “Would you join me for coffee?” And the other thing was cigarettes. They went together. Since I didn’t smoke or drink then, I felt anti-social. Anti-social. No, that was temporary. 

 

ASC: She wasn’t a part of the crowd.

 

ZS: That’s how it would turn out. Then I decided to buy some coffee. That was difficult. What, how? Ten… A hundred grams. That was the first package and training.

 

ASC: Tell me if you had someone, a friend or a family member with whom you enjoyed drinking coffee the most.

 

ZS: I did. I liked to drink it with our neighbor across the hall the best. We had coffee at 5. 

 

HB: With Bisera?

 

ZS: Aha.

 

HB: Right.

 

ZS: That was really something special, at five, after work…

 

ASC: So what did you talk about the most?

 

HB: School…

 

ZS: There were no special conversations, but, um, it was more about the time, it was just… Although those people were older, but there was some special magic. 

 

ASC: Hatidža for you, is there someone special with whom you drink coffee, is it your husband Mizret or? 

 

HB: Well, the same thing Zumreta said, myself and Mizret the most, and also with that neighbor, we really spent a lot of time together, it was such a nice neighborhood, and as she said, one day at their place, one day at our place.

 

ASC: So what did you guys talk about, what did you discuss, your life, about what happened?

 

HB: About life, for sure, and how we’ll raise the children, how will provide them with an education so they can move forward, to be very educated, not to be unschooled like we were, because we didn’t have the right conditions, back when we were growing up there really were no right conditions, really, especially for girls, there really were no right conditions. There were more children back then, eight, ten, and now it’s one or two. When I was a young girl, as Zumreta would say, I said that if I ever have a family, children of my own, I’ll do my best to protect them, to keep them from too much labor, from hardship, that I’ll do my best to make their life as easy as possible, make it enjoyable…

 

ASC: And that, during those conversations, would you find some…

 

HB: And that neighbor also, for example, she had two children, I had two children, we really connected mostly through our children, school, the most… we wanted so much for our children to get good education. 

 

ASC: So, after those, like, conversations, did you feel better… 

 

HB: Through work, things like that…

 

ASC: Was it easier for you after sharing…

 

HB: Absolutely, how couldn’t have it been? When you can tell someone, when you have someone to sit down with and talk with and they don’t contradict you, but accept what you’re saying, when they say that it’s really great to raise the children, to teach them culture, so they’re not on the street. 

 

ASC: Tell me, Tidža, do you ever drink coffee by yourself, do you ever take a moment to rest like that? 

 

HB: I never used too, never, ever, I never used to sit by myself to have coffee. 

 

ASC: You like having company?

 

HB: I always like having company, but nowadays there’s less and less of it, now I have coffee by myself sometimes. Now that I’m elderly. 

 

ASC: Is there a place where you liked drinking coffee the most? Was it in your house or somewhere in the garden?

 

HB: Well, my living room when I was in the city, and when we went to our village, we liked the yard. We’d sit there, and I have to say lot of us would gather, from the neighborhood, we’d gather around 5-6 o’clock to rest up a lit, to enjoy our coffee, when, you know, when sun begins to set everyone goes back to their work. 

 

ASC: You used to, did you use to go to a coffee shop and sit there, did you use to get together with friends?

 

HB: Not much, not much.

 

ASC: Mostly at home?

 

HB: Mostly at home.

 

ASC: Zumreta, did you go to coffee shops or did you also mostly get together with friends…?

 

HB: I go nowadays, Adela, more often. 

 

AC: Okay, so, you’re good?

 

ASC: Yeah, I’m gonna wrap up pretty soon.

 

AC: I want to talk to Mirzet more about…

 

ASC: Oh, he’ll give you a story. 

 

AC: Okay.

 

ZS: I both frequented the coffee shops and had coffee at home, a coffee shop had its charm, um, also at a certain time of day.

 

Mirzet Beširević: What will she have, is she done with the recording? 

 

ZS: Also at a certain time of day, um, when it was customary to go to a coffee shop, you know, the morning coffee and the afternoon coffee. I never liked to drink coffee by myself, now I do, it’s not like it used to be, for the sake of socializing, for pleasure, now it’s mostly the need for caffeine. When the head signals, um, that it needs caffeine, then it happens quickly. Just gulp it down… 

 

ASC: You don’t relish it?

 

ZS: No! When it’s a social activity, then there’s chatting, you know, relaxation, you’re not thinking, depending on who you’re drinking coffee with. Coffee is special. 

 

ASC: Tidža, did you bring a coffee put with you to America?

 

HB: No. I bought one here in America.

 

ASC: And if you had a choice, would you have brought your coffee pot with you?

 

HB: I was robbed of everything I packed to bring. And if I could have brought it, I surely would have.

 

ASC: And who would you give it to? If you were to give it to someone, now?

 

HB: Well to one of my children, my daughter, or my son.

 

ASC: Who did you teach how to brew coffee? 

 

HB: My daughter.

 

ZS: You didn’t teach me.

 

HB: I didn’t, well okay I did, I still showed you

 

ZS: You taught Alena. 

 

HB: Ah, sorry, my neighbor. I taught Alena all about coffee.

 

ZS: How to drink it and brew it.

 

HB: And brew it. I taught her, really, god rest her soul, to cook, to wash, all you can think of. All of it! And she really loved me, she always loved me and called me her aunt, although I wasn’t her aunt. But she called me her aunt. 

 

ASC: So you know her, you know well that you taught her.

 

HB: I know that for sure. 

 

ASC: What would you say, do you prefer to drink Bosnian coffee or do you like this express American coffee?

 

HB: I still prefer Bosnian coffee. 

 

ASC: Bosnian the most.

 

HB: The most, and I stand by that. 

 

ASC: Tell me now about one memory that, a memory that has to do with coffee and coffee consumption. Was is with a group of people?

 

HB: For example, of course I had lots of company since I had an older sister, the two of us drank coffee and spent time together a lot, she’d go to the garden, and I’m at home, I’d clean the house, make dinner, brew some coffee, I’d say, “Let’s have some coffee, you’re tired now,” let’s say. And she’d say, ‘Where did you find the coffee?” “Don’t worry, I hid some away for the two us.” Because, as they say, we were in the midst of a crisis, it was really difficult to obtain any, it was really, really difficult. Then, of course, gradually each year was better and easier, so naturally we were more glad and at ease and as we got older, life got better. As a contrast to our childhood, I mean, we really had a difficult childhood. But we grew up and things improved and life was nice.

 

ASC: Do you have any other stories about you and Mirzet drinking coffee together, what do you talk about?

 

HB: And then when I, I just wanted to say this one thing, and when, my mom always used to say, “What will you do when you get married, how will you manage, you won’t be drinking coffee!” “Well,” I says, “Maybe people will still be drinking coffee then!” However, when I got married, I really got a father-in-law who loved drinking coffee, he had this big fat cup and whenever I come home, he calls, “Tidza, shall we have a cup?” “For sure, grandpa, for sure.” So I really, when I got married, freely drank coffee. And it was really nice because I had a really good father-in-law, he never said any harsh words to me, never. So I had a good time. And myself and Mizret, naturally, when it’s just the two of us, you’re discussing how to, how to advance, how to live better, how to provide security for the children…. Grandchildren, daughters-in-law, sons-in-law to sit down, discuss, so our children…

 

ASC: How many times a day do you and Mizret drink coffee?

 

HB: We used to drink a lot, I don’t even know how many times, and now we drink in the morning and afternoon. Two morning cups. 

 

ASC: And when you have guests?

 

HB: Well, it’s more… We’ll have some, but less than before. Less, much less. The old age is here. I swear to God, we’re getting old, Adela. Yep. We’re getting old, and so.

 

ASC: Thank you, Tidža. Zumreta…

 

HB: Thank you too. 

 

ASC: …let us ask you, do you have a place where you liked drinking coffee the most? Enjoy the coffee hour?

 

HB: You liked to drink coffee with grandma Muhiba.

 

ZS: I didn’t have, there wasn’t a special place. 

 

HB: Zumreta, you know you liked to have coffee with grandma.

 

ZS: No, a place, not with whom.

 

HB: A place, a place, sorry.

 

ZS: Um, there wasn’t a special place.

 

ASC: So, mostly at home for you.

 

ZS: Mostly. Um, I did. If it’s about going out, um, I liked to go to a coffee shop, afternoons at that, because that’s where a certain circle of friends would gather at the same time and that was a short stop, about a half an hour, just enough for coffee. Um, that’s where I liked to go.  

 

ASC: Tell me, now, before we started this interview, you said that now you drink, that you don’t drink Bosnian coffee any more. 

 

ZS: I don’t drink Bosnian coffee any more, I drink Bosnian coffee only when I have to, when I visit someone and I have no choice to, um…

 

ASC: And why is that?

 

ZS: Because, um, it’s not… Now I’m confusing my languages. Because I feel, um, I don’t think it’s that healthy for the stomach.

 

ASC: That it’s strong?

 

ZS: That it’s strong and since the grounds on the bottom are so thick, and it’s not recommended to drink as much of it as we used to. Another reason is too much caffeine, since people drink it late, then it disturbs, um, sleep, so that’s not so great either, so I chose, um, Nes café with, without caffeine, I can have it when I need to, and I don’t feel any difference in my sleep and, you know, that I can’t fall asleep, or that my stomach reacts if I have it before a meal or after a meal.  

 

ASC: Do you have a memory concerning coffee, the consumption of it, something you could share with us?

 

ZS: As far as memory, I have a lot of memories of other drinking coffee, not my own experience, but an experience of other people. What a tradition that was and very important and not like today. Today it’s all about speed, quick, um, the preparation itself isn’t what it used to be. It used to be like some kind of a ritual. 

 

HB: People relished their coffee time.

 

ZS: The coffee pot had to be a special one, for each person, which was hard for me to understand, a pot is a pot, it looks the same on the outside, the shape and the name is the same, but when you’re listening to people say, “This pot makes good coffee,” this one makes good coffee, how can there be a difference, however there was one. Um, when I was testing them myself, um, there’s a difference. 

 

ASC: So, every pot tastes different.

 

ZS: Right.

 

ASC: Or makes the coffee taste different.

 

ZS: The taste and then also the preparation. Um, also, that’s an experience as well, who makes coffee which way, how much coffee is there in the pot, you know, warming it, how much water do they pour, how long do they wait for the water to raise the froth just before it boils over. What does that mean? And then you have to add more water, it’s really a process. And that process, that process, for those who love coffee, is necessary. And that coffee is really tasty and nice. Who…   

ASC: So, the more care, the tastier. 

 

ZS: Right. Who isn’t an expert, who isn’t an expert, then it’s easier, regardless of what a pot looks like, you just pour the water, stir, and that’s it. And there’s a difference. Just like there’s a difference between today’s appliances, so there’s a difference in an ordinary pot and water and… Ground coffee. 

 

ASC: So what could you say concerning that Bosnian tradition of ours and coffee, how much did it change? You touched upon that topic. 

 

ZS: A lot. Even twenty years later, I often miss that tradition. That tradition had that special magic, you know, it really had that special something. And people carried themselves differently, they’d stop working, and everything, there was always time for that coffee. Whereas today, people don’t connect over coffee the way they did before. Sure, there’s a social aspect if there’s a meeting at work, this and that, there is, but it doesn’t have the warmth, the sentiment it used to have. It’s more of a habit than a tradition.

 

ASC: Thank you for your time, I think you really shared some very beautiful memories of times past. 

 

HB: Thank you two a lot as well.

 

ZS: Thank you, Adela, and Ana. 

 

 

Adela Sajdel Cerić: Okay. Hoćemo početi? Znači, ja sam Adela Sajdel i ja ću napraviti ovaj intervju sa Hatidžom Beširević. Hatidža, hoćeš nam se predstaviti? Ime, gdje si rođena i koliko imaš godina.

 

Hatidža Beširević: Ja sam Hatidža Beširević, rođena u Projedoru 1948. 5. V.

 

ASC: Dobro, znači sad ćemo…

 

Ana Croegeart: I Zumreta? No? 

 

HB: Pa reci, pa nek’, kaži.

 

Zumreta Subašić: Ja se zovem Zumreta Subašić. Rođena sam u Prijedoru 1967, imam uskoro 46 godina. 

 

AC: Ja sam vam Ana Croegeart, Amerikanka.

 

HB: Jeste. Okay, okay. Mi smo Bosanke i Amerikanke. 

 

ASC: Dobro, Ana je tu pripremila par pitanja pa ćemo mi to vidjeti jedno po jedno. Tidžo kad si ti prvi puta naučila da napraviš kafu, da skuhaš kafu, koliko ti je bilo godina? 

 

HB: Pa ja to…

 

ZS: Pa koliko si?

 

HB: Pa ne znam. Mala sam bila. 

 

ASC: Jel’ prije nego što si u školu krenula? 

 

HB: Pa, osam-devet godina.

 

ZS: Osam, to je tako…

 

ASC: Znaš li gdje si bila? 

 

HB: U Miljakovcima.

 

ASC: U svojoj kući, jel’? 

 

HB: Jeste, u Miljakovcima u svojoj kući. Kod Prijedora.

 

ASC: Jel’ te to naučila tvoja mama ili neki drugi rođaci?

 

HB: Moja mama. 

 

ASC: Da. Pa jesi pila tad ili si samo naučila kuhat?

 

HB: Učila kuhat, al’ poslije sam jako voljela piti. Zaviču da nema kafe, ja seb’ sakrijem pa da ima. Kad dođu kolegice da imam da kuham, da pijemo kafu, da se...

 

ASC: Pa kakav je okus bio?

 

HB: Prelijep. 

 

ASC: Je l’?

 

HB: Prelijep.

 

ASC: Jesi l’  kad šta jela uz kafu ili ste samo pile kafu?

 

HB: Pošto smo bili na selu pa smo imali i voća i domaće smo, sve manje više domaće je bilo.

 

ASC: I to ste jeli uz kafu? 

 

HB: Jest’, jest’ bogami. Pa ponekada se znao naći keks, recimo rahatluci oni lokumovi i voće, kažem, i tako.

 

ASC: Pa kad si počela kuhat kafu, jesi to onda često kuhala ili kako je to bilo, ponekad?

 

HB: Pa više češće kad se umoriš pa sjedne kafa. 

 

ASC: Dobro.

 

HB: Za odmor.

 

AC: Mmmmm.

 

ASC: S tobom… (inaudible).

 

HB: Znali smo ćejfit, sorry.

 

AC: No!

 

ZS: Neka se smije. Kad sam ja prvi put napravila? Kad sam imala osamnaest godina kad sam otišla na fakultet da studiram. I to je bilo jako teško da se napravi. Pošto… 

 

HB: Kikiriki…

 

ZS: Prvo ja nisam znala koja… (snaps fingers)

 

HB: Sorry, sorry.

 

AC: No, that’s okay.

 

ZS: Ja nisam znala koja kafa meni odgovara. S mlijekom, bez mlijeka, jača, tanja, sa šećerom, bez šećera tako da smo ja i moja cimerka što smo dijelile stan testale. To je bila baš velika stvar, veliki projekat. A kad sam počela pravit, pa onda nakon jedno godinu dana da dana sam počela drugo, druge častiti. 

 

HB: Pa bila si onako curetak. 

 

ZS: Devetnaest, ono…

 

ASC: Pa jesi volila kako taj okus kafe, ili?

 

ZS: Ja di… E ne, onda sam ovo, najbolje mi je odgovarala crna, bez šećera, jača. I to je moralo biti jedna mala šoljica, baš ono po mjeri, dovoljna. A promjena je došla kad sam otišla u Švedsku nakon sedam godina, onda je počelo biti, bijela, sa mlijekom, sa šećerom, i blaža.

 

ASC: Blaža?

 

ZS: A sad pijem Nes kafu, ono, bez kofeina. To mi je, to mi je najbolja. I café latte. 

 

ASC: A šta je s tobom, Tidžo, da li se ti sjećaš kad si pvi put dobila prvu džezvu i fildžan, ili si sebi sama išla kupiti džezvu i fildžan? 

 

HB: To je mama imala. I fildžani, i džezva, i ibrici, i mali ibrici bili.

 

ASC: Je l’ ti ona to poklonila? 

 

HB: Ah, ostalo kod mame. Ostalo kod mame, a ond akad sam se ja udala, normalno da sam ja sama sebi kupila. 

 

ASC: Okej. Znači nije ti niko dao tvoje prve fildžane i džezvu, ti si to sebi sama kupila.

 

HB: Nisam, nisam dobila.

 

ASC: A kad si ti bila djevojčica, tad nije bilo, normalno, nije bilo električnih…

 

HB: No, vatra se ložila.

 

ASC: Nije, nije, ne pitam te to, nego…

 

HB: Aha, posude! 

 

ASC: Nije, mlinovi.

 

HB: Pa da! No, no, ne. 

 

ASC: To se ručnim…

 

HB: Ručno, ručno. 

 

ASC: Mhm. Pa jel’ ti misliš da ima neka razlika između kafe koja se…

 

HB: Ljepša je kad se melje…

 

ASC: …kad se melje…

 

…ručno.

 

ASC: Dobro, jel’ ljepša zato što se čovjek umori pa mu slađe, ili?

 

HB: Ne, ne, ljepša je, ja sam i ovdje uzela, pa sam opet uzela ovaj pa meljem. 

 

ASC: I sad ovdje melješ opet?

 

HB: Jeste. Da pokažem joj Mirzet toga…

 

AC: Can I take pictures?

 

HB or ZS: Ali ja nisam fotogenična…

 

AC: Oooooh, perfect! Is it okay if I take a picture?

 

HB: Okay. Vid’ ovo! 

 

AC: These are amazing. They don’t…

 

ASC: Mirzet made it, Hatidža’s husband.

 

AC: You made it?

 

HB: Yeah! Mirzet, yeah!

 

AC: Wow!

 

HB: Rostfraj, reci.

 

ZS: (quietly) Rust-free. Reci. 

 

ASC: Bojim se da rosfrajt ne znam prevesti. 

 

(indecipherable, several voices at the same time)

 

ZS: Kad je kafa kod Bosanaca najvažnija. 

 

AC: One more, Hatidža, jedan…

 

ZS: A lijepo izgovara, baš.

 

AC: Can I…Wow.

 

HB: To je ručni rad.

 

ASC: All right. Dok Ana pregleda ovaj mlin da te pitam, Tidžo, gdje ste vi kupovali kafu u zrnu? Jel’ to nešto što ste kupovali?

 

HB: Kupovali u Čeli.

 

ASC: Znači…

 

HB: Selo, Čela se zvalo. 

 

ASC: U trgovini, je li? 

 

HB: U trgovini, jeste. Jeste, u trgovini.

 

ASC: Pa većinom ste u zrnu, onda ste kući…

 

HB: Ja, prijesnu kafu, pa smo pržili,

 

ASC: Pržili, pa da, to je…

 

ZS: I dva načina prženja je bilo toga.

 

HB: Dolaf, prvo se u dolafu, naložiš vatru, i pržiš. Da kuću ne dimiš. Onda poslije onaj električni šparet pa u tepsiju. 

 

ASC: Da. Da. 

 

HB: I u električni šparet.

 

ASC: A za vrijeme rata, gdje ste kupovali ond kafu?

 

HB: Auuuu! Isto trgovina, bilo jako malo, pržila se ječem, miješ’o se ječem i ova kafa. A malo, malo kafe, sve ječem. 

 

ASC: Jesi imala ti neku posebnu kafu što si volila, neka kompanija što…

 

HB: Minas. 

 

ASC: Minas?

 

HB: Minas, naj… Brazil, i Minas. 

 

ASC: Okay.

 

HB: Brazilska i Minas.

 

AC: Brazil and Minas are your favorite brands, okay. 

 

HB: Jest, jest.

 

ASC: Kakvu ti voliš kafu? Da… malo mlijeka, sa kajmakom?

 

HB: Sad crnu volim. Prije sam puno volila sa kajmakom, sa mlijekom, a sad crnu.

 

ASC: Šećer?

 

HB: Malo. Vrlo. Malo. 

 

ASC: Kad si ti radila prije rata, jeste vi pili kafu na poslu, sa suradnicima svojim?

 

HB: Jesmo, sa radnicima, jeste, imalo smo kafeteriju dole, i kuhali, pili, svi smo.

 

ASC: Jeste imali za doručak onako, svi zajedno?

 

HB: Jeste, bilo je za doručak, i oko 11 pauza, ono mislim kad se dođe na posao u 7, kafa, i poslije u 10, opet kafa, i onda kad idu, nema, dva puta.

 

ASC: Okej. Pa šta bi pričali, šta se za vrijeme…

 

HB: Pa svak ima svoju priču. 

 

ASC: Kad ste se družili, jeste pričali o…?

 

HB: Pa svako svoju priču, recimo, normalno da smo se družili, bili smo jako jako pažljivi, kao familija smo bili, moja firma je bila stvarno kao familija. 

 

ASC: A sada se vratimo, Zumreta, tebi. Znači, kako si ti pravila kafu, jesi volila da koristiš ovaj tradicionalni mlin ili električni mlin?

 

ZS: Od početka ručno što sam mljela, pošto električni mlin…

 

HB: Pregori kafu.

 

ZS: Da, promijeni ukus i ono daje jaču. Onda moraš gledat. Ako nije prepržena, onda može se i jedan i drugi mlin koristiti. Ako je malo više pržena, onda je najbolje sa ručnim. Tako da ja isto prioritiram prvo ručni mlin. 

 

ASC: Pa onda… A imaš li ti određenu kafu što voliš piti, je l’ i kod tebe Minas ili ti je svejedno?

 

ZS: Meni je svejedno. Nemam nešto specijalno.

 

ASC: Pomenula si prije da nisi baš volila pit kafu prije rata, da si smatrala da je bila preskupa, hoćeš nam reći nešto…

 

ZS: Nije, nije, nije smatr… Ja…

 

HB: Reci istinu!

 

ZS: Pa nije, nije to istina, nego ono, u to vrijeme kad sam ja rasla, bila je kriza u Bosni što se tiče kafe i…

 

HB: Ja.

 

ZS: I izvor nabavljanja bila je Italija. I, ovaj, trebalo je puno novaca da se ta kafa nabavi. I onda, većina roditelja su prioritirali kafu od drugih stvari. I ta kafa je bila isto jedan način socijalne, ono, druženja, socijalna, odmora, kad je vrijeme, kad se radi, da bi se ostavilo sve, to je vrijeme kafe. Tako u Bosni kafa ima veliki simbol za mnoge stvari. Onda ja kao dijete nisam to mogla da shvatim da nešto što meni nije bilo lijepo, što sam ja probala kod majke, nije imalo neki poseban okus, da bi se moralo davat toliki novac i žrtvovati, tako da sam ja uvijek govorila da neću pit kafu. I zašto sam ja počela da pijem kafu? Kad sam počela studirati, kafa je baš bila taj socijalni život, ako je neko nepoznat, prvo kako da se priđe i da se upoznaš, “Hoćeš li ić na kafu?” I druga je bila cigareta. Išlo jedno uz drugo. Pošto ja nisam tad ni pušila ni pila kafu, osjećala sam se nesocijalnom. Nesocijalnom. Nije, to je trenutno bilo. 

 

ASC: Nije bila dio društva.

 

ZS: Tako je ispadalo. Onda sam odlučila da kupim kafu. To je bilo jako teško. Šta, kako? Deset… Sto grama. To je bilo prvo pakovanje i treniranje.

 

ASC: De mi reci jesi imala nekog, neku prijateljicu ili nekog od familije s kim si najviše voljela popiti kafu?

 

ZS: Jesam. Najviše sam volila sa komšinicom preko puta. Mi smo imali kafu u 5 sati.

 

HB: Biserom?

 

ZS: Aha.

 

HB: Jeste.

 

ZS: To je bilo baš socijalno, u pet sati, poslije posla…

 

ASC: Pa o čemu ste najviše pričale?

 

HB: Škola…

 

ZS: Nije bilo nekih specijalnih razgovora, ali ovaj, više je bilo to vrijeme, baš ono… Iako ti ljudi su bili stariji, ali nešto je posebno činilo neku čar. Ovaj, i volili su da piju istu kafu kao i ja, gorčina kafe i sve to, tako da je nešto sve specijalno bilo, i uvijek je, i dan danas se sjećam. Ovaj…

 

ASC: Hatidža za tebe, je l’ ima neko specijalan s kim piješ kafu, je li to tvoj suprug Mirzet ili? 

 

HB: Pa isto što je rekla Zumreta, ja i Mirzet smo najviše, a isto s tom komšinicom smo baš se puno puno družili, bio nam je baš lijep komšiluk i što je ona rekla jedan dan kod nje, jedan kod nas.

 

ASC: Pa o čemu ste pričale, o čemu ste, o životu svom, o onom što se desilo?

 

HB: O životu, normalno, i kako ćemo djecu podić, kako ćemo ih školovati da idu naprijed, da budu budu puno školovani, da ne budu bez škole kao što smo mi bili, jer mi nismo imali uslova, tad kad smo mi rasli nije bilo uslova, stvarno, pogotov za žensku djecu, nije bilo stvarno uslova. Onda je bilo i više djece, po osmoro, desetero, a sad je jedno, dvoje. E ja sam rekla kad sam bila curetak, što bi rekla Zumreta, ja kad budem ikada imala familiju, djecu, gledaću da ih zaštitim, da mi puno ne rade, da se puno ne muče, da ću im se truditi da im dam što lakši život, da uživaju…

 

ASC: A to, tako tokom tih razgovora, jeste pronalazili neku…

 

HB: A i ta komšinica isto recimo, u nje bilo dvoje djece, u mene bilo dvoje djece, najviše smo stvarno kroz djecu, škole, naj… baš smo imali želju da djeca nam dobre škole završe. 

 

ASC: Pa, poslije tih, tako, razgovora jel’ vam bilo lakše…

 

HB: Kroz posao, tako…

 

ASC: Jel’ vam bilo onda lakše kad podijelite…

 

HB: Kako da ne, jašta je nego lakše? Kad nekome, kad imaš ne s kim sjest i popričat kad on ono tvoje ne pobija, isto prihvati, kaže da je to jako lijepo da djeca se odgoje, da djeca budu kulturna, da ne budu na ulici. 

 

ASC: A reci mi, Tidžo, jel’ ti piješ ikad kafu sama, ovako,  imaš li ikad taj odušak?

 

HB: Nisam, nikad, nikad, nikad sama sjest popit kafe, nikad. 

 

ASC: Voliš u društvu?

 

HB: Volim uvijek društvo, al’ eto sad slabije ima se i društva, sad i popijem i sama. Tek sad pod stare dane.

 

ASC: Imaš li neko mjesto gde najviše si volila popiti kafu? Jel’ to bilo u svojoj kući il’ negdje u bašti?

 

HB: Pa, dnevni boravak recimo u gradu kad sam bila, a kad odemo na selo, volili smo u dvorište. Sjesti, pa nas dođe bogami podosta, iz komšiluka, skupimo se oko pet-šest sati da se malo odmorimo, da kafendišemo, kad se, ono, sunce malo zađe onda svak svoj posao uzme i radi.

 

ASC: Ti si, jesi išla u kafić ikad sjesti ovako, jesi se nalazila tu s prijateljima?

 

HB: Slabo, slabo.

 

ASC: Najviše kući?

 

HB: Najviše kući.

 

ASC: Zumreta, jesi ti išla više u kafiće ili si takođe se družila…?

 

HB: Više sada, Adela, idem. 

 

AC: Okay, so, you’re good?

 

ASC: Yeah, I’m gonna wrap up pretty soon.

 

AC: I want to talk to Mirzet more about…

 

ASC: Oh, he’ll give you a story. 

 

AC: Okay.

 

ZS: Ja sam i jedno i drugo, kafić je imao isto svoju čar, ovaj, isto u određeno vrijeme.

 

Mirzet Beširević: Šta će ona, jel’ snimila? 

 

ZS: Isto u određeno vrijeme, ovaj, kad se izlazi u kafiće i pije kafa, onda u kući, ono, jutarnja, poslijepodnevna, dvije, dva vremena. Ja nisam nikad volila piti sama kafu, sad je pijem, nije na taj način, socijalni, sa užitkom, više potreba kofeina. Kad glava daje signal, ovaj, da treba kofein, onda to ide više ono brzinski. Samo da se popila…

 

ASC: Ne ćejfiš?

 

ZS: Ne! Kad je društveno onda to je sa razgovorom, ono, opuštanjem, čovjek ne ramišlja, zavisi s kim se pije. Kafa je specijalna. 

 

ASC: Tidžo, jesi ti donijela sa sobom u Ameriku džezvu?

 

HB: No. Ovjde u Americi kupila sam.

 

ASC: Da si imala izbor, bi li donijela svoju džezvu sa sobom?

 

HB: Što sam ponijela, sve mi je oteto. A da sam mogla donijeti, bi sigurno.

 

ASC: A kome bi je dala? Da je daješ nekome, sada?

 

HB: Pa dala bi djetetu, kćerki poklonila, ili sinu.

 

ASC: Koga si ti naučila da napravi kafu? 

 

HB: Kćerku.

 

ZS: Nisi ti mene.

 

HB: Nisam, pa dobro jesam, opet sam pokazivala…

 

ZS: Ti si učila Alenu. 

 

HB: Ah, sorry, komšinicu. Alenu sam učila i kafu.

 

ZS: I da pije i da kuha.

 

HB: I kuhati. Naučila sam je stvarno, rahmetli, i skuhati i oprati, sve živo. Sve! I baš me volila, uvijek me je volila i vikala mi da sam joj strina, mada nisam. A ona je mene zvala sa strinom. 

 

ASC: Znači nju znaš, dobro znaš da si nju naučila.

 

HB: Nju znam sigurno. 

 

ASC: Šta bi sad rekla, više voliš piti bosnasku kafu ili voliš ovu ekpres američku?

 

HB: Bosansku više još uvijek. 

 

ASC: Najviše bosansku.

 

HB: Najviše, i ostajem pri tom. 

 

ASC: De mi ispričaj jednu svoju memoriju koja je, jedno sjećanje koje je vezano za kafu i ispijanje kafe. Je l’ to u društvu bilo?

 

HB: Pa recimo, normalno da je bilo društva pošto sam imala stariju sestru, nas smo dvije puno pile i družile se, ona ode u baštu, a ja u kući, posrepmim kuću, skuham ručak, skuham kafu, kažem, “Haj’ ti da mi nju poijemo, sad si se ti umorila,” recimo. A ona kaže, “Otkud ti kafa?” “Ne sekiraj se ti, ja sam nama sakrila kafe.” Jer zato što bi rekli, bila stvarno kriza, bilo je stvarno teško kupovati, ono baš, baš je bilo teško. Pa, bože moj, postepeno je onda uvijek svaka godina bila lakša i bolja i normalno da nam je bilo i draže i ljepše i kako smo odrastali tako smo bolje i živjeli. Spram, mislim, u djetinjstvu, stvarno smo imali teško djetinjstvo. Ali porasli smo, onda krenuli na ljepše i bolje. 

 

ASC: Imaš li još nešto da nam ispričaš kad ti i Mirzet pijete kafu, o čemu pričate?

 

HB: E, onda kad sam, samo sam htjela ovo da kažem, a kad mi je, mama mi je znala reć’ uvijek, “A šta ćeš kad se udaš, kako ‘š onda, ne’š piti kafu!” “E,” reko’, “možda će se i tada piti kafa.” Međutim, kad sam se udala, stvarno sam svekra imala koji je strašno volio piti kafu, on je imao jedan svoj debeli fildžan i ja otkud god idem, on viče, “Tidžo, hoćemo li kafu?” “Hoćemo, dide, hoćemo.” Tako da sam stvarno kad sam se udala bez ik’e krize pila kafu. I bilo mi je stvarno lijepo jer mi je bio stvarno dobar svekar, nikad mi nije rek’o ružne riječi, nikad. Tako da mi bilo lijepo. A ja i Mirzet normalno kad smo sami pričaš kako bi, kako bi napredovali, kako bi bolje živjeli, kako ćemo djecu izvest na selamet, unučad, snahama, zetovima da se sjede, popriča, da nam djeca…

 

ASC: Koliko puta dnevno ti i Mirzet pijete kafu?

 

HB: Prije smo jako puno pili, ne znam ni kol’ko puta, a sad pijemo ujutru i popodne. Dvije kafe jutarnje. 

 

ASC: I kad vam dođu gosti?

 

HB: Pa, više je… Popije se, al’ manje. Manje, stvarno manje. A i starost je. Stari se, bogami, Adela. Ja. Stari se, i tako.

 

ASC: Hvala, Tidžo. Zumreta…

 

HB: Hvala i tebi. 

 

ASC: …da tebe sad pitamo, imaš li ti mjesto gdje si najviše voljela piti kafu? Kafendisat?

 

HB: S majkom Muhibom voljela si popit.

 

ZS: Nisam imala, nije neko specijalno mjesto. 

 

HB: Zumreta, znaš da si s majkom.

 

ZS: Nije, mjesto, nije s kim.

 

HB: Mjesto, mjesto, sorry.

 

ZS: Onaj, nije neko specijalno mjesto.

 

ASC: Ti si većinom, znači, kući.

 

ZS: Većinom. Ovaj, jesam. Ako se vani, ovaj, voljela sam otić u jedan kafić, i to poslijepodne, pošto tu se i određeni krug društva skupljao u isto vrijeme i to je bilo kratko, jedno pola sata, baš ono za kafu dovoljno. Ovaj, tu sam voljela otići.

 

ASC: Reci mi, sad, prije nego što smo počele ovaj intervju rekla si da sad piješ, ne piješ bosansku kafu više. 

 

ZS: Ne pijem bosansku, bosanska kafa je samo kad moram, kad odem kod nekog u goste i kad nemam izbora da, ovaj…

 

ASC: A zašto je to?

 

ZS: Zato što, ovaj, nije… Ja sad miješam jezik. Zato što ja osjećam, onaj, mislim da nije to toliko zdravo za želudac.

 

ASC: Da je jaka?

 

ZS: Da je jaka i pošto ima puno toza i to ne bi trebalo da se pije toliko puno koliko smo mi količinski. Iz drugog razloga, previše kofeina, pošto se pije kasno, onda poremeti i ovaj, san, tako da ni to nije baš veselo, tako da sam ja izabrala, ovaj, Nes kafe sa, bez kofeina, mogu popiti kad god zatreba, ne osjetim nikaku promjenu u snu i, ono, da ne mogu zaspati, ili želudac da reaguje ako popijem prije jela ili poslije jela.

 

ASC: Imaš li ti neko sjećanje vezano za kafu, ispijanje kafe, što bi mogla sa nama podijeliti?

 

ZS: Što se tiče sjećanja, imam puno sjećanja kad su drugi pili kafu, ne lično moj doživljaj, nego doživljaj drugih ljudi. Koliko je to bilo i tradicija i jako važno i nije kao danas. Danas je to brzinski, samo na brzinu, onaj, sama priprema danas nije kao što je bila prije. Prije je bila kao neki obred.

 

HB: Više se ćejfilo.

 

ZS: Džezva je morala biti specijalna, kod svakoga, što je za mene bilo teško da shvatim, džezva ko džezva, izvana je ista, oblik i naziv je isti, međutim kad slušaš priču, “Iz ove džezve mi je lijepa kafa,” iz ove je lijepa, kako može biti razlika, međutim i bila je razlika. Ovaj, kad sam ja sama testovala, ovaj, ima razlike.

 

ASC: Znači, svaka džezva ima poseban okus.

 

ZS: Jeste.

 

ASC: Ili daje poseban okus kafi.

 

ZS: Okus, onda isto i priprema. Ovaj, isto, i to je doživljaj, kako ko pravi kafu, koliko kafe u džezvi, ono, zagrijava, koliko vode dospe, koliko se čeka da ta voda podigne pjenu i prebaci taj ključ kako mnogi kažu. Šta je ključ? I onda ponovo da se dodaje vode, baš je proces. I taj proces, i taj proces, ko voli kafu, pravi. I ta kafa je stvarno ukusna i lijepa. Ko…

 

ASC: Znači, što više pažnje, ukusnije je.

 

ZS: Jeste. Ko nije stručnjak, ko nije stručnjak, to je onda lakše, bez obzira kako izgleda džezva, samo naspe se vode, promiješa se i gotovo. I ima razlika. Baš ko što ima razlika iz današnjih kafa iz aparata, tako i razlika ima iz obične džezve i vode i… Mljevene kafe. 

 

ASC: Pa šta bi mogla reći u vezi te naše bosanske tradicije i kafe, koliko se to promijenilo? Malo si ti dotakla na tu temu.

 

ZS: Jako puno. I poslije dvadeset godina, nedostaje mi dosta puta ta tradicija. Ta tradicija je imala neki specijalan čar, ono, baš je imala nešto specijalno. I ljudi se družili na drugačiji način, i napuštali su i posao, i sve to, uvijek se našlo vremena za tu kafu. Dok danas više kafa ne veže ljude na taj način koji je vezala prije. Jeste da ulazi u to socijalno ako su sastanci na poslu, tamo-vamo, dolazi, ali nema onu otplini onu sentimentalnost koju je imala prije. Više je kao navika nego tradicija.

 

ASC: Hvala vam za vrijeme, mislim da ste zaista podijelili neka veoma lijepa sjećanja na neka davna vremena.

 

HB: Hvala i vama puno.

 

ZS: Hvala i tebi, Adela, i Ana.